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[quote="99jolegg"][b]UPDATE[/b] - 19 Mar 08 - Original post updated, to include clarification on certain parts, to add some common questions and answers to those questions and clarification about the GPS approach. [size=16] [color=green][i][b]Approaches[/b][/i][/color][/size] - [color=red][b][i]Instrument Landing System (ILS) Guides:[/b][/i][/color] [size=16][b]1)[/b][/size] If you have filed an IFR flight plan, you will receive mandatory instructions at around 70 miles from your destination airport. Follow these instructions. [img]http://img382.imageshack.us/img382/2978/1vy4.jpg[/img] ...and a clearance from around 25 miles [img]http://img160.imageshack.us/img160/7026/01rj6.jpg[/img] Follow instructions carefully - try writing them down if you think you'll forget. Write down the airport dictated in that clearance (if you don't already know it) and the runway and type of approach, i.e. ILS (type of instrument approach) 9L (the runway). [size=16][b]2)[/b][/size] You then need to go to your Map which is the little star like icon on the panel or go to the "World" menu at the top and click "Map". [img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/99jolegg/2.jpg[/img] Or [img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/99jolegg/3.jpg[/img] You should see a purple line towards your destination airport from where you are: [img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/99jolegg/4.jpg[/img] ...follow this line to your airport, and double click on a runway at that airport in the map, (Note, you might need to do this more than once, as sometimes it thinks you're trying to change the route). [size=16][b]3)[/b][/size] From the map, there should be a list of runways with a line of information after them. Find the runway that you received in your clearance in Point 1. Write down the ILS heading i.e. 093 degrees, and the ILS frequency of that runway (110.30), as well as the Airport Elevation (80ft) which can be found in that same box above the list of runways. ILS information: [img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/99jolegg/5.jpg[/img] Elevation: [img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/99jolegg/6.jpg[/img] [size=16][b]4)[/b][/size] After you have all of that information written down, close the map and open your Radio Stack.... [img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/99jolegg/7.jpg[/img] Key in the frequency you wrote down using the inner and outer knob, into NAV1 and make sure it is in the primary position, meaning it is on the left as opposed to the right of the two displays. This can be done by pressing the <---> button in the middle of the two screens. [img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/99jolegg/8.jpg[/img] At the bottom of the radio stack, there should be a row of clickable buttons, namely COM1, COM2, BOTH, NAV1, NAV2, MKR, ADF, DME etc. Click the NAV1 button as to illuminate the light. This enables you to hear the morse code frequency to check you have the correct frequency... [img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/99jolegg/9.jpg[/img] Note: MKR, DME and ADF are not essential for an ILS approach. [size=16][b]5)[/b][/size] Close the radio stack, and enter the runway heading you wrote down from the map, into the Autopilot panel (MCP), under the CRS section (Course). This will serve to position the ILS raw data display in line with the runway, as you can see in the two diagrams at Point 12. [img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/99jolegg/10.jpg[/img] **In some aircraft such as the 747, the CRS selector is found on the Horizontal Situation Indicator (HSI) which is the compass on the panel, usually found under the Attitude Indicator.** [i][u]---You now have the approach set up, and should be flying towards your airport whilst descending. At about 30nm out, you should be around 9000 feet, descending at around 1500-1800 fpm with a speed of roughly 240 KIAS; aiming to reach 2800 feet by 15nm from the airport---[/i][/u] [size=16][b]6)[/b][/size] Once you reach the height and distance of 2800 feet AGL from 15nm out, you will now be hearing the ILS Morse code identifier and you should be roughly on course, according to the HSI (but only if you have remembered to type the ILS heading into the course selector). If you already have the GPS / NAV switch on NAV, you will soon see the glideslope becoming active - the point at which the bug / indicator starts to move from its bottom most position. You will need to be at a speed of 180 KIAS or less at this point. [size=16][b]7)[/b][/size] At this point, or around 10nm out, at the same altitude, you should receive a clearance to land from ATC. [color=white]**************[/color]From here, you have two options: [size=16][color=green][i]- For Autopilot to control the descent on the ILS = [/i][b][u]Go to point 8[/color][/b][/u] [color=green][i]- To hand fly visually on the ILS = [/i][b][u]Go to point 12[/b][/u][/color][/size] [color=red][i][b][u]--> For Autopilot to track the ILS[/u]...[/color][/i][/b] [size=16][b]8)[/b][/size] Switch the GPS / NAV switch to NAV instead of GPS. [size=16][b]9)[/b][/size] Make sure you have Autopilot on, your speed is at or below 180 KIAS, and you are at a height of 2800 feet or less. Press the APP button at around 10 nm out, and the aircraft will follow its path down vertically and laterally until you get to 500 feet AGL. Note that you don't need to disengage the altitude hold button if you have it engaged - the AP will do that for you when you engage the APP button. [size=16][b]10)[/b][/size] You will have to control flaps, auto brakes, speed and gear on this approach. At 500 feet AGL, you must disengage the Autopilot and hand fly the last 500 feet. [img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/99jolegg/13.jpg[/img] [img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/99jolegg/14.jpg[/img] [img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/99jolegg/15.jpg[/img] [size=16][b]11)[/b][/size] Once you land, slow down and taxi from the runway. [color=red][b][i][u]--> For manual approach on the ILS[/u]...[/color][/b][/i] [size=16][b]12)[/b][/size] On the attitude indicator on the right and bottom side or similarly on the HSI, white indicator lines shall appear, with a pink triangle on both the vertical and horizontal set of lines. The big line in the middle is the centre of the approach and is the correct glide slope. If you are too high, the triangle on the vertical axis will be below the middle line and vice versa. If you are too far to the left, the line will appear to the right of the middle bigger line, indicating that you should turn to the right until it centres. To put it simply, fly towards the lines as to centre them. Other visual forms of interpeting raw data that the ILS provides exists. for example, two moveable bugs on a horizontal and vertical axis. The method remains the same - fly towards the lines, just as you do the triangles: [img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/99jolegg/11.jpg[/img] In the above hand-flown example, I am slightly low and slightly too far to the right i.e. I need to maintain altitude for a few seconds and add some left aileron and rudder. It takes practice, but becomes easier after that practice. The result... [img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/99jolegg/12.jpg[/img] [size=16][b]13)[/b][/size] Do this all the way down to the runway threshold; making small movements on the control surfaces to centre the arrows / lines on the HSI or attitude indicator. You can use the autothrottle (A/THR) to control the speed if you find this easier. At the same time, you need to control flaps and gear etc. [img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/99jolegg/13.jpg[/img] [img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/99jolegg/14.jpg[/img] [img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/99jolegg/15.jpg[/img] [color=orange][b][size=18]Common Questions...[/size][/b][/color] [b]1) Why do I have to intercept the glideslope from below?[/b] [img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/99jolegg/ILSGS.jpg[/img] As you can see, the beam of the ILS extends to around 10-12nm. When the aircraft flies towards the runway, they are about to intercept the glideslope beam causing the vertical indicator to show the aircraft is on the correct descent gradient. From this point, the aircraft needs to start descending; below 2800 feet to stay in the centre of the 2 lines, which get closer and closer together until the threshold of the runway. If you were much higher than this point, you can see that you'd miss the beginning of the GS and possibly encounter False GS Lobes which will provide misleading information. [b]2) Why when I engage the APP does the aircraft get a mind of its own?[/b] In most cases, this is usually because you are engaging the approach hold button too early, or at too higher speed. You also need to make sure that you are near centered on both axes of the ILS before engaging the APP. [b]3) Why do I have to wait until the axes are centered before engaging APP?[/b] Simple. The APP function of the autopilot is an [i]approach hold[/i] feature. Therefore, it was only ever designed to hold an approach that the pilot has setup. It only follows that it won't do well in trying to track both the localiser and GS from scratch. [b]4) Can I perform an autoland using the ILS?[/b] No. No default aircraft in FS9 or FSX is capable of landing automatically. The APP is only an approach hold function and [i]must[/i] be disengaged along with the A/THR at [b]D[/b]ecision [b]H[/b]eight or above. Decision Height is the height above ground level, specified in the approach plate for that runway, that you must commence a go around if you don't have visual contact with the airfield and runway. [b]5) Why am I having trouble trying to centre the axes?[/b] There is no simple solution to this. Practice in a smaller aircraft first. The example above is using a Boeing 737. Try out an ILS approach in a Cessna to get a feel for how much movement you'll need to stay centered on the approach. [b]6) Why do I end up 'missing' or 'over-shooting' the glideslope and localiser?[/b] This is most probably down to poor handling of the aircraft or due to flying at too higher speed. Make small movements on the control surfaces and I suggest clearing the weather so you can see the airfield at all times. This will help you gauge how much you'll need to compensate with regards to control surfaces. [b]7) What is that damn annoying beeping noise when I approach the runway?[/b] It's the morse code identifier for the NAV aid's frequency that you have tuned in NAV1. Cross-checking the morse code you hear with the morse code on the map / chart will confirm you are tracking the desired NAV aid. [b]8) Why do I need to turn the NAV/GPS switch to NAV?[/b] The NAV and GPS settings relate to two different entities. Real world aircraft don't use the GPS like the sim does so this switch isn't in existence in the real world. Simply put, the GPS side of the switch simply slaves the autopilot to what is programmed into the GPS. The NAV side of the switch slaves the autopilot and instruments to any NAV aids you have the NAV radios tuned to. [b]9) At some airports, I've descended to 2800ft but am [i]really[/i] close to the ground, or even worse, it is below the level of the ground. What's going on??[/b] This is where the airport elevation part of Point 3 comes in. When descending to an airport of higher elevation than normal, you need to make sure you add the elevation of the airport to 2800ft to give you an interception altitude. In the example above, the airport is at an elevation of 80ft, making little to no difference. However, airports like Denver, Colorado have an elevation of 5000ft - descending to 2800ft AMSL, will leave you 2200ft underground - not a good position. Therefore, adding the airport elevation to 2800ft will make 7800ft, leaving you 2800ft above ground level. - [color=red][b][i] VHF Omni directional Range (VOR) Approach Guides [/color][/b][/i] [i]Read through the link below...[/i] http://stoenworks.com/Tutorials/IFR,%20VOR%20Approaches.html [i]Alternatively...[/i] http://www.navfltsm.addr.com/vor-appr.htm - [color=red][b][i]Non-Directional Beacon NDB (Automatic Direction Finder) ADF Approach Guides[/color][/b][/i] [i]Read through the link below...[/i] http://stoenworks.com/Tutorials/IFR,%20NDB%20%20Approaches.html [i]Alternatively...[/i] http://www.navfltsm.addr.com/ndb-appr.htm - [color=red][b][i]Global Positioning Satellite (GPS) Approach Guide[/color][/b][/i] The GPS approach will allow you to fly towards an airport or runway using the autopilot with NAV engaged and the NAV/GPS switch set to GPS. The tracking is [i]only[/i] lateral so descent will have to be controlled by the pilot. Again, autopilot should be disconnected by 200ft AGL. 1) Open up the GPS. 2) Click the button on the right hand side at the top with "--->" on. 3) Click the right arrow on the inner knob on the bottom right hand side of the GPS once and enter the 4 digit ICAO code for the airport. [i]For example, London Heathrow = EGLL[/i]. 4) Click "ENT" on the right hand side and then use the right arrow on the outer knob until the cursor reaches "Activate" and then click "ENT" again. 5) Now click "PROC" at the bottom of the GPS. 6) Click "ENT" when the cursor is over "Select Approach". Choose the approach you would like by moving the cursor by clicking the left or right arrow on the outer knob. [i] For example, ILS 29L[/i]. 7) Click "ENT" and pick the waypoint from which you would like the approach to your selected runway to start from. If you would like it to start in a straight line from the runway about 15nm's out, select [i]Vectors[/i] (Recommended). 8) Click "ENT". Click on the right outer arrow so cursor is on "Activate" and click "ENT". 9) Your flight plan will then appear. Click "PROC" twice and the approach will be set up.[/quote]
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Author
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Blade Brown
Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 12:01 am
Post subject:
Ok..Thx..I got it..
It seemed like having the FD on and then turning off AP pushed my nose up because they were still the 1700ft. in the AltHold that ATC assigned me..seemed as the plane simply tried to get up to that level again..And due to the fact that A/T was turned off..I heard the horrible sound of the Stickshaker after 5 seconds cause I was about to stall... I tried it during cruising..same thing... FD on... AltHold Off..there goes the plane... FD off, ALTHold off.. or AP off... it kept perfectly flying... Maybe a flaw in the Sim.. I dunno... However... It works now..and I will put vids of it tomorrow on Youtube..hehehehe...
Thx again...
Seb
99jolegg
Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 11:52 pm
Post subject:
No not your mistake - the FD doesn't do that in real life and shouldn't - when AP is off, it's merely a guide to the pilot; it's not an automatic function of the aircraft and doesn't control the aircraft.
2500ft is just a guide for ILS interception - all airfields are different. I suggested a height just so people didn't have to check the runway plates for the airfield they're attending but you can do it that way if you wish. Some intercept at 2000ft, some 1500ft, some 3000ft - depends on the airfield and its elevation.
Blade Brown
Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 11:48 pm
Post subject:
Ok Thx...
I also think I found my problem....
First.. For my approach, landing in HK (54 ft above sea level), ATC assigns me 1.700 ft... according to the usuall 2500 feet to catch the glideslope from below, that mean I would catch it later than if I would be at 2500 ft... I saw it cause on the primary display, once I hit the glideslope, which i think was the green arrow on my gps, the pink square in my flight display told me i m too low..it came down by itself after time..probably coz of the 1.700 ft.. once it was in the middle, i hit the approach button..
I saw all of a sudden, during my approach (which probably never happens in real life) that the runway etc was all of a sudden covered with a green grid and green outlines... then I pressed approach button (according to glideslop on the flight display) and the plane started to descend, turning off the auto-heading (cause I put the heading of 73 in the crs according to flightplan) and it turned of the althold switch...
However... it did not turn off the flight director.... and there was the trouble... after turning off the flight director and then A/T and then the AP, voila...whoop whoop, but no nose up anymore..and i landed very smoothly by going to idle with thrust at 20 ft and flaring the nose...
seems like the FD is not for landing and as you said, disengaging the AP might set the plane to the settings of the FD...... If that was the problem and not just coincidence..that was a stupid beginner mistake from my side.. lol
99jolegg
Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 9:55 pm
Post subject:
Blade Brown wrote:
I mean it seemed to be kind of a stair type approach.. They reduced speed and descended...increased speed and kept the altitude...reduced again and descended..like a stair... Seemed to me as they were going down..keeping..down..keeping..down..keeping etc..
Depending on how busy the airspace you're in is, radar control might give you limits on climbs / descents to avoid other traffic either crossing or same direction / opposite direction. Where possible, ATC will try to give you continuous descents / climbs, though.
Blade Brown wrote:
plus i also read many tutorials saying to extend the flaps step by step..i never saw that except on the vids of the a380...
always seemed to me that they reduced speed and descended... and that at a certain speed and altitude..they extended the landing gear and full flaps which had an immense breaking power while i was seat-belted and then descended...
Yes, flaps are extended in stages - mainly because each flap setting has its own Vfe (max flap extension speed in IAS) on most types. Landing gear is usually extended on passing an altitude or a range from the destination airfield. If flying an ILS approach, the gear goes down before the final approach fix to avoid descending gear up.
Extend the flaps in stages as in the real world - it's far smoother, safer and comfortable to do so. There is no logic behind dumping 30-40 degrees of flap in a couple of seconds.
You'll find this out when you fly certain types of aircraft in the real world - controlling the balloon created from high speed / cambered wing with increased surface area sometimes has to be seen to be believed!
Blade Brown
Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 8:47 pm
Post subject:
I mean it seemed to be kind of a stair type approach.. They reduced speed and descended...increased speed and kept the altitude...reduced again and descended..like a stair... Seemed to me as they were going down..keeping..down..keeping..down..keeping etc..
plus i also read many tutorials saying to extend the flaps step by step..i never saw that except on the vids of the a380...
always seemed to me that they reduced speed and descended... and that at a certain speed and altitude..they extended the landing gear and full flaps which had an immense breaking power while i was seat-belted and then descended...
i also did it like this...i reduced approach speed to 210 knots..once i was ordered to descend i descended and then reduced speed to 200 knots..extended landing gear and full flaps while reducing to 180 knots..and then down to 145.. and then landing...
it s so complicated though.. lol
take off was easy..punched in all info into the AP panel..not activated... teaking off..positive climb..retracting gear and then activate Ap with AltHold..then A/T Cruise speed and then HDG Hold when ATC gave me a heading after climbing following runway heading climb...
Thx
Seb
99jolegg
Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 8:38 pm
Post subject:
Good luck with the licenses.
Blade Brown wrote:
I recognized they were descending and climbing using the throttle... Like flying kind of a sinus rhythym... Is that when they use a map and certain waypoints and marks to descend?
Not too sure what you mean by this - if you want to climb and maintain constant speed, you need to increase power / thrust. If you want to descend and maintain constant speed, you have to decrease power / thrust.
Blade Brown
Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 8:32 pm
Post subject:
Thx my friend... Great Tutorial anyways.... Now I can manage to land ILS using the AP.. although as you said... AP landing no good.... Seems that the AP is kind of watching over your shoulder in that case...I still have full control over the plane though..but these add ons %^#$!!! my system somehow... I will change the accuracy in the config file...
I know that turning of the ELAC FTL Ctrl 1 is definatley NO WAY!!!.... but if it helps for the Airbus though....ok... btw.. Didn t have an add one for the 747.. Works perfectly..even with AP Off... So it s the config file...
Will try it with a pure 767 and an A 380.... lol.... oh no... Look at us.... amateur whatever wannabe pilots going with an A380 hehehe..
However... My license is in planning... Will work out the financial stuff...I wanna fly.. And at the end get certified on a 737-800 and an 320/321 cause those are the most used ones in the world... So I am training already right now...
I also tried flying a VFR instead of IFR... and guess what... no problem.. although I used the GPS Vector and the ILS for the VFR.. and it worked... really means it s the config file altered...
By the way... I never flew a complete Visual Approach.. I remember when I was flying as passenger in a real plane.. I recognized they were descending and climbing using the throttle... Like flying kind of a sinus rhythym... Is that when they use a map and certain waypoints and marks to descend?
Thx
99jolegg
Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 7:52 pm
Post subject:
Glad it worked - I'm afraid I don't know anything about the config file side.
Blade Brown
Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 7:14 pm
Post subject:
hmmm..i get the feeling it might not be the sim itself... but the add on i downloaded
it was a texture download for the original planes... however the airplane.cfg changed as well.. somehow i think this person altered the autopilot in a way it is not flyable anymore....
the settings are:
Airbus 321:
[flight_tuning]
cruise_lift_scalar=1.0
parasite_drag_scalar=1.0
induced_drag_scalar=1.0
elevator_effectiveness=1.0
aileron_effectiveness=1.0
rudder_effectiveness=1.0
pitch_stability=1.0
roll_stability=1.0
yaw_stability=1.0
elevator_trim_effectiveness=1.0
aileron_trim_effectiveness=1.0
rudder_trim_effectiveness=1.0
static_pitch=0.3 //degrees, pitch when at rest on the ground (+=Up, -=Dn)
static_cg_height=9.2 //feet, altitude of CG when at rest on the ground
gear_system_type=1 //Hydraulic
[gear_warning_system]
gear_warning_available=1 //Normal
pct_throttle_limit=0.1 //Percent throttle that activates warning
flap_limit_idle=5.0 //Flap angle that activates warning at idle
flap_limit_power=25.5 //Flap angle that activates warning at above idle
[autopilot]
autopilot_available=1
flight_director_available=1
default_vertical_speed=1800
autothrottle_available=1
autothrottle_arming_required=1
autothrottle_max_rpm=90
autothrottle_takeoff_ga=1
pitch_takeoff_ga=8;
max_pitch=10.0
max_pitch_acceleration=1.0
max_pitch_velocity_lo_alt=2.0
max_pitch_velocity_hi_alt=1.5
max_pitch_velocity_lo_alt_breakpoint=20000.0
max_pitch_velocity_hi_alt_breakpoint=28000.0
max_bank=25.0
max_bank_acceleration=1.8
max_bank_velocity=3.00
max_throttle_rate=0.10
nav_proportional_control=12.00
nav_integrator_control=0.25
nav_derivative_control=0.00
nav_integrator_boundary=2.50
nav_derivative_boundary=0.00
gs_proportional_control=25.0
gs_integrator_control=0.53
gs_derivative_control=0.00
gs_integrator_boundary=0.70
gs_derivative_boundary=0.00
yaw_damper_gain=1.0
And Boeing 737-800
[flight_tuning]
cruise_lift_scalar = 1.0
parasite_drag_scalar = 1.0
induced_drag_scalar = 1.0
elevator_effectiveness = 1.0
aileron_effectiveness = 1.0
rudder_effectiveness = 1.0
pitch_stability = 1.0
roll_stability = 1.0
yaw_stability = 1.0
elevator_trim_effectiveness = 1.0
aileron_trim_effectiveness = 1.0
rudder_trim_effectiveness = 1.0
[autopilot]
autopilot_available=1
flight_director_available=1
default_vertical_speed=1800
autothrottle_available=1
autothrottle_arming_required=1
autothrottle_max_rpm = 90
autothrottle_takeoff_ga=1
pitch_takeoff_ga = 8;
max_pitch=10.0
max_pitch_acceleration=1.0
max_pitch_velocity_lo_alt=2.0
max_pitch_velocity_hi_alt=1.5
max_pitch_velocity_lo_alt_breakpoint=20000.0
max_pitch_velocity_hi_alt_breakpoint=28000.0
max_bank=30,25,20,15,10
max_bank_acceleration=1.8
max_bank_velocity=3.00
max_throttle_rate=0.10
nav_proportional_control=12.00
nav_integrator_control=0.25
nav_derivative_control=0.00
nav_integrator_boundary=2.50
nav_derivative_boundary=0.00
gs_proportional_control=25.0
gs_integrator_control=0.53
gs_derivative_control=0.00
gs_integrator_boundary=0.70
gs_derivative_boundary=0.00
yaw_damper_gain = 1.0
The problem must be in here somehow.... I think..
However..the AP On did it..I landed using ILS funstions etc.. and at the end just leave the AP on until I touched down..Reverse Thrust..and then turn it off..It worked...
Seb
99jolegg
Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 6:08 pm
Post subject:
You could try that but just as an aside, it's illegal to do that in the real world unless the aircraft and runway (they're not in the sim) are certified for a CAT IIIB/C approach i.e. the runway and aircraft (and crew) must be certified to land with the autopilot still on.
I'd still try and counteract the pitch up, which certainly becomes
so
much easier with a joystick.
Blade Brown
Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 6:04 pm
Post subject:
P.S.
I solved the trouble for the Airbus....Although I think no real pilot would do that... Turning of the ELAC Flight Control 1 (3 buttons, right side overhead panel) seemed to disengage this problem..It did it... But I don' t think thats the best way... The Boeing doesn t have that..I will try now leaving AP on until touch down and then see...
Seb
Blade Brown
Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 5:53 pm
Post subject:
Thx my friend... This time I used the whole ILS Configuration.. Meaning entering the ILS frequency.. This case Flying Guangzhou to Hong Kong..Quick jump... I punched in ILS Frequency.. And turned on NAV Button on the Com Console..Heard the Morse Code as soon as i approached.. I was flying a 737-800 Singapore Airlines.. Changed display to Approach... Configured my plane for final approach... Vectors-to-final ILS 7L Perfect alignment..as I hit the localizer I pushed the APP Hold Button and my plane started to descend and turned off AltHold Button.. Perfect... As i hit 200 ft. I disengaged AP and again..nose up..Really have to work on that trim..Maybe I leave on the AP until I am on the runway... Gotta try that... Config was okay.. flaps full 150 knots..gear down... and the Boeing descended by itself... at the end I had 4 white lights..During the approach, I was at 1.700 ft as given by ATC..She was going down perfectly... Centerline... But when I hit the AP Button at 500 ft.. bam..Nose up... damnit..lol... Let me see if I land ILS leaving AP on until I touchdown..nose down and then hit the Reverse Thrust.. Maybe then it s ok.. She lands beautifully, announcing perfeclty from 100 to 20 ft.. I have the PM Sound Add On.. then I put Thrust on Idle in order to land... no Retard Retard though.. Let me try not to disengage the AP until touchdown and Thrust Reverse..
Thx
99jolegg
Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 5:30 pm
Post subject:
It's the stabiliser trim that usually causes that problem. In the real world, autopilot systems are designed so that "snatching" doesn't occur on engaging or disengaging the autopilot. In the sim, it's hit and miss as to whether it'll snatch to the last known trim position when flying manual.
The best solution I can think of is it stabilise the aircraft as best as you can and re-trim for the current speed / configuration.
By the way, the four lights you're seeing are the Precision Approach Path Indicators (PAPIs) and they denote your rough whereabouts on the vertical axis on the approach i.e. the glideslope. Roughly a 3 degree glideslope is denoted by 2 white lights and 2 red lights. Higher than that indicates 3 or 4 white lights. Lower than the optimum is indicated by 3 or 4 red lights and no white lights.
Let us know how that goes.
Blade Brown
Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 1:13 pm
Post subject:
Hi there, thx first for this incredible tutorial.. But still... I have big troubles when landing..I think I just make a tiny mistake somehow... Or maybe I forgot something...
My approach is always fine.. I get ATC orders and follow them.. Once I have my ILS Runway Info, I punch it into the GPS with vectors-to-final.. The red line is there then and I perfectly align with the runway and i can see it..
Then I am coming in, flaps full, gear down, speed between 145 and 150 knots.. before the airport usually at around 2000 - 2500 feet.. I then descend using the althold button cause i have no joystick and flying with the keyboard is a mess... However, I wanna land manually.. I see during my final approach that these 4 lights that are next to the runway start to change color.. (I dunno must have something to do with the ILS)... Then at around 500 feet i disengage A/T but then as soon as i disengage the althold button or autopilot, my nose shoots up in the air and i miss... i tried it a different altitudes during final approach... always the same.. and whether i fly the lets say 737-800 or the airbus 321.. it s always the same... so where is the problem? It even does it sometimes when I disengage AP during the normal flight..
(I did the tutorials in MSX incl transition to jets and flew some missions..never had problems there)
I tried to learn...read books etc before i started with msx so i was thinking i was theoretically prepared lol... mistake i guess
Thx
Seb
99jolegg
Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 6:34 pm
Post subject:
No problems! Glad it helped.
KenTel
Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 4:50 am
Post subject:
Hey Jon, what a lot of knowledge you have imparted to me and a lot of other land lubbers...
Must have a lot of patience also, I have thoroughly enjoyed the post, though has taken me into the wee small hours reading it all.
Anyway I felt impelled to add my appreciation, for your time, work, knowledge and patience.
Thanks Jon!
eater1234
Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 1:13 am
Post subject:
thanks for help it works fine now
99jolegg
Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 4:54 pm
Post subject:
The approach hold is just that - an approach
hold
function so will not land the aircraft for you because it's not designed to do so. Disengage the autopilot and autothrottle at 200-500ft and hand fly the remainder.
As for not intercepting the glidesope...make sure you have intercepted the localiser first and then approach the glideslope from below at 180kts - if you do so, you should have no issues.
If you can give us a bit more info about your speed and profile, it'll help.
eater1234
Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 7:45 pm
Post subject:
nice tutorial.
first i did it with cessna 172 inputed course il freq and all of that, clicked aproach hold switch and whoa it really did worked plane began to turn itself and before i knew it i was safetly on the ground.
then,
i did same thing with default a321 inputed ourse ils freq and everything, clicked on aproach hold switch and plane lined up to the runway, but it began to go up and then all the way down to just a few feet above the ground, once i was over runway it didnt made touchdown it just flew straight.
hmm....
Taxman
Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 2:12 pm
Post subject: ILS
I am fairly sure it did stay on but wasn't sure how to override it. I will try your suggestion.
Thanks very much,
taxman
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