FLIGHT SIMULATION FORUMS

Everything you Need or Have to Know about The ®Microsoft Flight Simulator


***Approach Guides***
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    FLIGHT SIMULATION FORUMS Forum Index
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
99jolegg
Senior Moderator


Joined: 03 Oct 2006

Location: UK

PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 1:53 am    Post subject: ***Approach Guides*** Reply with quote

UPDATE - 19 Mar 08 - Original post updated, to include clarification on certain parts, to add some common questions and answers to those questions and clarification about the GPS approach.

Approaches

- Instrument Landing System (ILS) Guides:

1) If you have filed an IFR flight plan, you will receive mandatory instructions at around 70 miles from your destination airport. Follow these instructions.



...and a clearance from around 25 miles



Follow instructions carefully - try writing them down if you think you'll forget. Write down the airport dictated in that clearance (if you don't already know it) and the runway and type of approach, i.e. ILS (type of instrument approach) 9L (the runway).

2) You then need to go to your Map which is the little star like icon on the panel or go to the "World" menu at the top and click "Map".

Or

You should see a purple line towards your destination airport from where you are:



...follow this line to your airport, and double click on a runway at that airport in the map, (Note, you might need to do this more than once, as sometimes it thinks you're trying to change the route).

3) From the map, there should be a list of runways with a line of information after them. Find the runway that you received in your clearance in Point 1. Write down the ILS heading i.e. 093 degrees, and the ILS frequency of that runway (110.30), as well as the Airport Elevation (80ft) which can be found in that same box above the list of runways.

ILS information:


Elevation:


4) After you have all of that information written down, close the map and open your Radio Stack....



Key in the frequency you wrote down using the inner and outer knob, into NAV1 and make sure it is in the primary position, meaning it is on the left as opposed to the right of the two displays. This can be done by pressing the <---> button in the middle of the two screens.



At the bottom of the radio stack, there should be a row of clickable buttons, namely COM1, COM2, BOTH, NAV1, NAV2, MKR, ADF, DME etc. Click the NAV1 button as to illuminate the light. This enables you to hear the morse code frequency to check you have the correct frequency...



Note: MKR, DME and ADF are not essential for an ILS approach.

5) Close the radio stack, and enter the runway heading you wrote down from the map, into the Autopilot panel (MCP), under the CRS section (Course). This will serve to position the ILS raw data display in line with the runway, as you can see in the two diagrams at Point 12.



**In some aircraft such as the 747, the CRS selector is found on the Horizontal Situation Indicator (HSI) which is the compass on the panel, usually found under the Attitude Indicator.**

---You now have the approach set up, and should be flying towards your airport whilst descending. At about 30nm out, you should be around 9000 feet, descending at around 1500-1800 fpm with a speed of roughly 240 KIAS; aiming to reach 2800 feet by 15nm from the airport---

6) Once you reach the height and distance of 2800 feet AGL from 15nm out, you will now be hearing the ILS Morse code identifier and you should be roughly on course, according to the HSI (but only if you have remembered to type the ILS heading into the course selector). If you already have the GPS / NAV switch on NAV, you will soon see the glideslope becoming active - the point at which the bug / indicator starts to move from its bottom most position. You will need to be at a speed of 180 KIAS or less at this point.

7) At this point, or around 10nm out, at the same altitude, you should receive a clearance to land from ATC.

**************From here, you have two options:

- For Autopilot to control the descent on the ILS = Go to point 8
- To hand fly visually on the ILS = Go to point 12



--> For Autopilot to track the ILS...

8) Switch the GPS / NAV switch to NAV instead of GPS.

9) Make sure you have Autopilot on, your speed is at or below 180 KIAS, and you are at a height of 2800 feet or less. Press the APP button at around 10 nm out, and the aircraft will follow its path down vertically and laterally until you get to 500 feet AGL. Note that you don't need to disengage the altitude hold button if you have it engaged - the AP will do that for you when you engage the APP button.

10) You will have to control flaps, auto brakes, speed and gear on this approach. At 500 feet AGL, you must disengage the Autopilot and hand fly the last 500 feet.



11) Once you land, slow down and taxi from the runway.

--> For manual approach on the ILS...
12) On the attitude indicator on the right and bottom side or similarly on the HSI, white indicator lines shall appear, with a pink triangle on both the vertical and horizontal set of lines. The big line in the middle is the centre of the approach and is the correct glide slope.

If you are too high, the triangle on the vertical axis will be below the middle line and vice versa. If you are too far to the left, the line will appear to the right of the middle bigger line, indicating that you should turn to the right until it centres.

To put it simply, fly towards the lines as to centre them. Other visual forms of interpeting raw data that the ILS provides exists. for example, two moveable bugs on a horizontal and vertical axis. The method remains the same - fly towards the lines, just as you do the triangles:



In the above hand-flown example, I am slightly low and slightly too far to the right i.e. I need to maintain altitude for a few seconds and add some left aileron and rudder. It takes practice, but becomes easier after that practice. The result...



13) Do this all the way down to the runway threshold; making small movements on the control surfaces to centre the arrows / lines on the HSI or attitude indicator. You can use the autothrottle (A/THR) to control the speed if you find this easier. At the same time, you need to control flaps and gear etc.



Common Questions...

1) Why do I have to intercept the glideslope from below?



As you can see, the beam of the ILS extends to around 10-12nm. When the aircraft flies towards the runway, they are about to intercept the glideslope beam causing the vertical indicator to show the aircraft is on the correct descent gradient. From this point, the aircraft needs to start descending; below 2800 feet to stay in the centre of the 2 lines, which get closer and closer together until the threshold of the runway.

If you were much higher than this point, you can see that you'd miss the beginning of the GS and possibly encounter False GS Lobes which will provide misleading information.

2) Why when I engage the APP does the aircraft get a mind of its own?

In most cases, this is usually because you are engaging the approach hold button too early, or at too higher speed. You also need to make sure that you are near centered on both axes of the ILS before engaging the APP.

3) Why do I have to wait until the axes are centered before engaging APP?

Simple. The APP function of the autopilot is an approach hold feature. Therefore, it was only ever designed to hold an approach that the pilot has setup. It only follows that it won't do well in trying to track both the localiser and GS from scratch.

4) Can I perform an autoland using the ILS?

No. No default aircraft in FS9 or FSX is capable of landing automatically. The APP is only an approach hold function and must be disengaged along with the A/THR at Decision Height or above. Decision Height is the height above ground level, specified in the approach plate for that runway, that you must commence a go around if you don't have visual contact with the airfield and runway.

5) Why am I having trouble trying to centre the axes?

There is no simple solution to this. Practice in a smaller aircraft first. The example above is using a Boeing 737. Try out an ILS approach in a Cessna to get a feel for how much movement you'll need to stay centered on the approach.

6) Why do I end up 'missing' or 'over-shooting' the glideslope and localiser?

This is most probably down to poor handling of the aircraft or due to flying at too higher speed. Make small movements on the control surfaces and I suggest clearing the weather so you can see the airfield at all times. This will help you gauge how much you'll need to compensate with regards to control surfaces.

7) What is that damn annoying beeping noise when I approach the runway?

It's the morse code identifier for the NAV aid's frequency that you have tuned in NAV1. Cross-checking the morse code you hear with the morse code on the map / chart will confirm you are tracking the desired NAV aid.

8) Why do I need to turn the NAV/GPS switch to NAV?

The NAV and GPS settings relate to two different entities. Real world aircraft don't use the GPS like the sim does so this switch isn't in existence in the real world. Simply put, the GPS side of the switch simply slaves the autopilot to what is programmed into the GPS. The NAV side of the switch slaves the autopilot and instruments to any NAV aids you have the NAV radios tuned to.

9) At some airports, I've descended to 2800ft but am really close to the ground, or even worse, it is below the level of the ground. What's going on??

This is where the airport elevation part of Point 3 comes in. When descending to an airport of higher elevation than normal, you need to make sure you add the elevation of the airport to 2800ft to give you an interception altitude. In the example above, the airport is at an elevation of 80ft, making little to no difference. However, airports like Denver, Colorado have an elevation of 5000ft - descending to 2800ft AMSL, will leave you 2200ft underground - not a good position. Therefore, adding the airport elevation to 2800ft will make 7800ft, leaving you 2800ft above ground level.

- VHF Omni directional Range (VOR) Approach Guides

Read through the link below...
http://stoenworks.com/Tutorials/IFR,%20VOR%20Approaches.html

Alternatively...
http://www.navfltsm.addr.com/vor-appr.htm

- Non-Directional Beacon NDB (Automatic Direction Finder) ADF Approach Guides

Read through the link below...
http://stoenworks.com/Tutorials/IFR,%20NDB%20%20Approaches.html

Alternatively...
http://www.navfltsm.addr.com/ndb-appr.htm

- Global Positioning Satellite (GPS) Approach Guide

The GPS approach will allow you to fly towards an airport or runway using the autopilot with NAV engaged and the NAV/GPS switch set to GPS. The tracking is only lateral so descent will have to be controlled by the pilot. Again, autopilot should be disconnected by 200ft AGL.

1) Open up the GPS.

2) Click the button on the right hand side at the top with "--->" on.

3) Click the right arrow on the inner knob on the bottom right hand side of the GPS once and enter the 4 digit ICAO code for the airport. For example, London Heathrow = EGLL.

4) Click "ENT" on the right hand side and then use the right arrow on the outer knob until the cursor reaches "Activate" and then click "ENT" again.

5) Now click "PROC" at the bottom of the GPS.

6) Click "ENT" when the cursor is over "Select Approach". Choose the approach you would like by moving the cursor by clicking the left or right arrow on the outer knob. For example, ILS 29L.

7) Click "ENT" and pick the waypoint from which you would like the approach to your selected runway to start from. If you would like it to start in a straight line from the runway about 15nm's out, select Vectors (Recommended).

8) Click "ENT". Click on the right outer arrow so cursor is on "Activate" and click "ENT".

9) Your flight plan will then appear. Click "PROC" twice and the approach will be set up.
_________________
a

99jolegg - Click below to support FSF Arrow

*****************


Last edited by 99jolegg on Wed Mar 19, 2008 2:10 pm; edited 9 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
GreekMan72
Administrator


Joined: 03 Oct 2006

Location: Hellas

PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 2:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Absolutely Great Exclamation

Thans Jon Exclamation
_________________

Wanna See FSF to the Top???Just Click my Sig Once a Day Wink

Ludo62
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
RadarMan
Administrator


Joined: 03 Oct 2006

Location: U.S.A.

PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 3:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is first rate Jon, you did a wonderful job.

RadarMan
_________________

Want To Help FSF?Click me ar7-d

Ludo62
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
earthqu8kes
Guest





PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 5:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

even better than the one at FA!!!!!!!!! great job! :grin:
Back to top
Das_Beia
Member


Joined: 15 Dec 2006

Location: McBain, MI

PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 6:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dang! That's really impressive! Way to go!
_________________
"I am not frightened of dying. Any time will do, I don't mind. Why should I be frightended of dying, I see no reason for it, you've gotta go sometime."-The Great Gig in the Sky
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
cheechm
Member


Joined: 03 Oct 2006


PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excellent. Now, all I have to do is remember it all!
_________________

"You think it, I'll say it!"

COMPUTER UPGRADE: £429 / £660
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
Mach2
Member


Joined: 29 Nov 2006

Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like using the ILS and if it goes correctly it makes a landing in a jet liner much easier. It's nice seeing the Jet practically land itself :D .
I also like landing this way in the prop planes, but I like doing it manually rather than the autopilot following the glide slope and the runway centre in the props :). I do find that some runways do not have a glide slope though, so that's worth noting.
_________________
Vista Home premium 64Bit/Intel Q6600 (3Ghz OC)/4GB Ram/9800GT
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
99jolegg
Senior Moderator


Joined: 03 Oct 2006

Location: UK

PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, you always need to check the runways facilities.

I certainly find doing it manually a lot more rewarding
_________________
a

99jolegg - Click below to support FSF Arrow

*****************
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Jam
Member


Joined: 01 May 2007


PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2007 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great guide, i managed to follow it great until it came to actually landing the plane. I made a small flight from Stanstead to Callais using ILS and when it comes to lining the plane up with the runway i always miss it. Is this something i'm doing wrong?

On another note, i just realised i put the runway heading in the Heading box instead of the course one, will this make much difference?

Sorry i sound a noob, im quite knew to all this Embarassed
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
99jolegg
Senior Moderator


Joined: 03 Oct 2006

Location: UK

PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2007 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No need to apologise - we all learn at some point. Are you flying a Cessna?

- Make small movements on the control surfaces - Don't overcompensate on the controls or you'll weave in and out trying to hit the centreline.

- Keep your speed low; it helps with maneuvering the aircraft, especially at low altitudes.

- Keep the runway threshold in your sight to begin with, and use the instrument display as a secondary backup so you can see how you are getting on.

- Always practice the ILS in a small aircraft to begin with. In the real world in the UK, the ILS approach is part of the hardest license you'll come across - it only follows that it isn't straightforward in the sim.

Regarding the heading box...the runway heading goes in the CRS box because it aligns the CDI with the runway heading which means you can easily reference your position to the runway rather than trying to figure it out in your head - it isn't essential but really helps.
_________________
a

99jolegg - Click below to support FSF Arrow

*****************
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Jam
Member


Joined: 01 May 2007


PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2007 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aw man you are a legend :D

I figured out i was messing up the ILS frequency, that didn't help. I saved a flight while i was approachign a runway so i could keep loading and i finally managed to land after getting it all correct. It feels great making your first landing, and i couldnt have done it without your guide =]

I was doing it in a learjet as i dont like the cessna too much.

Thanks man :D
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Noiles
Member


Joined: 26 Oct 2007

Location: CYOW

PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have followed your directions for the GPS landing perfectly and the first time I tried it it worked amazingly. From then on, every time I try to do it again I get placed into a hold pattern and never get out of it. What am I doing wrong?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
GreekMan72
Administrator


Joined: 03 Oct 2006

Location: Hellas

PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jon will come soon.From me just a Welocme to FSF Wink
_________________

Wanna See FSF to the Top???Just Click my Sig Once a Day Wink

Ludo62
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
99jolegg
Senior Moderator


Joined: 03 Oct 2006

Location: UK

PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Noiles wrote:
I have followed your directions for the GPS landing perfectly and the first time I tried it it worked amazingly. From then on, every time I try to do it again I get placed into a hold pattern and never get out of it. What am I doing wrong?


A hold pattern will ensue when you have passed the runway. Make sure you are at a low enough altitude to spot the runway and keep your speed low. You won't be put in a hold pattern by ATC or the GPS (in the sim) before you have passed the runway threshold you are approaching.

If you are still having trouble, take a screenshot of your GPS screen and show us.

Good luck. Welcome to FSF, am I right in thinking you came over from FSX.co.za?
_________________
a

99jolegg - Click below to support FSF Arrow

*****************
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Noiles
Member


Joined: 26 Oct 2007

Location: CYOW

PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 12:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

99jolegg wrote:
Welcome to FSF, am I right in thinking you came over from FSX.co.za?

I did come fro fsx.co.za and it is still happening so i will get a screen shot of the GPS and my altitude in case it does have something to do with it
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Noiles
Member


Joined: 26 Oct 2007

Location: CYOW

PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 7:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

noticed this was in the fs9 forum does it apply to FSX also?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
99jolegg
Senior Moderator


Joined: 03 Oct 2006

Location: UK

PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Noiles wrote:
noticed this was in the fs9 forum does it apply to FSX also?


Yes, it does. It was constructed using FSX as an update. Why I put it in here? No idea
_________________
a

99jolegg - Click below to support FSF Arrow

*****************
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Noiles
Member


Joined: 26 Oct 2007

Location: CYOW

PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 2:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry it took so long to get pictures...

http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/6291/gps1jx3.jpg

http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/5138/gps2sr7.jpg
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
99jolegg
Senior Moderator


Joined: 03 Oct 2006

Location: UK

PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Noiles wrote:
Sorry it took so long to get pictures...

http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/6291/gps1jx3.jpg

http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/5138/gps2sr7.jpg


The approach is set up fine in the GPS; it is the method that you fly it that is causing you problems. Try:

- Approaching the runway at a more shallow angle, you are coming in at a steep angle so are likely to miss the runway.
- Keep your speed low to make manoeuvres easier
- Keep your altitude low - at only a few miles from the runway, you are at 3500ft. 2500ft is a good interception for the ILS.
- Disengage the AP NAV hold after following the vectors to final (the last red line before the runway in your second shot)

One thing that has occurred to me that could be happening, each sector on a GPS is like a waypoint, therefore, missing a waypoint can cause the GPS to form a backtrack in the form of a hold to accomplish passing the last waypoint. You are coming in at such a sharp angle, it is very possible that you are missing the end of the vectors to final, and the GPS is getting you back on track. Of course, the above would only work if you had the GPS/NAV switch set to GPS and the NAV on the Autopilot panel engaged. Are you using the NAV hold for this?

Let us know
_________________
a

99jolegg - Click below to support FSF Arrow

*****************
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Noiles
Member


Joined: 26 Oct 2007

Location: CYOW

PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My GPS/NAV switch is set to GPS and i do have the NAV Hold button engaged for AP.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    FLIGHT SIMULATION FORUMS Forum Index -> FS9 General Forum***Open To Guest Posting***
All times are GMT + 3 Hours
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next
Page 1 of 7

 
Jump to:  
You can post new topics in this forum
You can reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

Hosting by:Free website builder

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group